How would you deal with staffing?

Author	Message
Chip_Bruh	Date sent: 2017/03/27 20:20:33 I came across 3 aligned irongolem spawners, two of which have data from players placing them: [Architect] Lego1master1 - http://imgur.com/iwYZGgO [Citizen] Zedcall - http://imgur.com/BFDzI7c In the past i have removed these spawners, Armz was also there to witness. Obviously since then they have decided to go against myself's and armz' word. After searching for a while, i found a room which all of the iron is stored in: http://imgur.com/a/MZlat All of these (total of 11 double chests) chests were full of iron, making a total of about 38,000 iron ingots, or approximately 594 stacks. from here i also found a few private chests locked by [VIP]+ Jtank316: http://imgur.com/a/j9RRY inside these chests were some items which looked legitimate, but also overall there was about a double chest of iron ingots. I went back to the unlocked chests, to see who had interacted with them, and possibly taken some iron from them. From here i saw that players: [VIP]+ ExplosivePotato_ [Donator]+ Galbby5 [VIP]+ Jtank316 [VIP]+ Ben9583 Had removed iron ingots from the chests. All of these players are in the faction 'RedEvo' I warped to the faction's shop to see if they were selling this iron. Here the only sale of iron ingots was from [Citizen] DaProtector: http://imgur.com/a/aSu13 Selling the Iron Ingots for $2 a stack. Now whilst it is true that i do not have proof that this iron is illegitimate, i do have proof that DaProtector has been at the farm ( He removed a spawner http://imgur.com/BFDzI7c ), and that the other players have been taking iron from this illegal iron farm (illegal because an architect may have got the spawner from gmc). which leads me to believe that DaProtector is also in possession of the iron, possibly has been passed the iron from one of the other players. The Iron was sold for just $2 a stack, which is 1% of the price Luigi told AceTheGreat98 to sell his iron for per stack, from his Iron farm ($200). To further investigate the relationship between DaProtector and the players found to have taken iron from the illegitimate farm, i scanned through the homes of all players involved. I found that DaProtector and Jtank316 share a home / base together. This is not much evidence, but it does show that they know each other well enough, possibly well enough to share items?? i recorded my findings here: https://youtu.be/KnHvEoKT4Dk from here i continued my search and found that Zedcall (a player which placed one of the illegitimate spawners) has a double chest full of iron: http://imgur.com/a/UZi1l Ben9385 has a chest with the equivalent of 176 stacks of iron ingots: http://imgur.com/a/SxxnB From what i could tell, every player that interacted with the Spawner chests has a home set at the farm. Zedcall and Ben9583 are not Architects, and do not have Creative mode. If this Iron is from the spawner farm (highly likely), it would be breaking the rules, as they (and anyone else that can find their way to the spawner) can access the chests and have an infinite amount of iron for free. --------------------------- So overall; - These spawners have already been removed in the past and the owners were told off for having them. - Lego1master1, who is an Architect, placed a spawner for some players in RedEvo, to use for iron (breaking rule 7). But he may have only moved it for them, not spawned it in. he may not have even changed it to Iron Golum. - Zedcall, who is a citizen, placed a spawner. How did he get this spawner? - copious amounts of iron has been farmed and stored. - players without GMC have had infinite access to this iron (breaking rule 7), and may have sold some too, for a ridiculously low price. - directly quoted from topic:http://webbcraft.co.uk/forum/read_topic.php?id=6790 "3rd - Person A builds auto farms or spawner farms which the whole faction uses the drops from even people who don't have gmc 4th - Person A creates farms and or spawner farms in gmc then sells those drops in a shop" Luigi's response: "3. Not allowed 4. Not allowed, though what ace said is correct, if the prices are not too low, it wouldn't really be an issue. Prices should certainly be higher than shops selling the items obtained legitimately." --------------------------- Now i would like for you, the community, to tell me what you would do if you were the investigating staff member, would you remove anything? everything? would you ban anyone? or demote anyone? if you want to, i'd like you to go into as much detail as you possibly can with what you would do. i've already dealt with the matter, i'd just like to know your methods. :)
Chip_Bruh	Date sent: 2017/03/27 20:45:59 also i'd love to point out that Galbby5 is complaining about Architects abusing creative mode, but here he is using an illegal spawner made by an architect, so that he can gain infinate iron. rofl.
xbmdavross	Date sent: 2017/03/27 21:18:24 You should check which of them has access to /spawner iron golem and remove all of their spawning abilities for a month or something so gmc /I and /spawner and then turn the golem spawners placed by the person with the command into pig ones, the others may not have realised that they should have.
galbby5	Date sent: 2017/03/27 21:31:05 Chip let me explain myself. Those spawners were set up by jtank a while ago. We used them for gathering iron. Jtank earned them through voting/hunting spawners in the time when admins gave players spawners for breaking them. Lego accidentally broke one, so he replaced it. As for zed placing them, I didn't know how he did it, and I will talk to them. But these spawners have been earned by jtank and me, and I don't see how this is architect abuse, as lego only gave us one for accidentally breaking one. The reason why it doesn't show up on the data is because it was way back, before I even joined i think, when the spawners were placed. Edit: turns out I was wrong, someone accidentally broke the spawner so lego replaced it. If keeping the spawners that admins handed out back then is against the rules, then I will gladly break them. Chip, putting aside everything I have against you, your arguments are mostly invalid. The spawners were earned and bought by jtank, and we're reaping the benefits of a fairly-earned spawner. It's just that those spawners were broken before. Once again, if keeping a spawner that an admin gave is against the rules. So be it. But if it's not against the rules, then we did not break a single rule.
Jtank316	Date sent: 2017/03/27 21:33:45 So what happened was i dont know htf zed placed the spawner and i made them awihle ago i do not sell the iron i use it for builds ext so that is my defense and i legetamitly got the spawners all lego did was change it the spawners he placed was from spawner i broke to get them out of proxima territory and the home we share is when toxic atleast i thgink toxic showed me this farm and i showed da protecter
Daprotector	Date sent: 2017/03/27 21:40:25 I didn't place a spawner I broke one :P
ExplosivePotato_	Date sent: 2017/03/27 21:41:12 ok i dont know about lego and zed placing spawners but the spawners that were placed by jtank were obtained from a time when admins changed spawners for us
Jtank316	Date sent: 2017/03/27 21:41:57 and chip how did you find this ? just wondering
Daprotector	Date sent: 2017/03/27 21:44:48 Also I'm new to server and IDK what's up. I just sell iron Choco Chip
galbby5	Date sent: 2017/03/27 22:01:01 Jtank built the iron golem spawner, not lego.
Jtank316	Date sent: 2017/03/27 22:08:46 So guys I haven't done anything rong those spawner are legal because the spawners that were placed we ones from proxima's land and I think that the 2 spawners chip broke should be given back to me and changing them isn't that bad since lego has bought the rank and did a favor for a friend.
Zedcall	Date sent: 2017/03/27 22:09:49 Ok, I just want to explain why I placed an iron golem spawner here. When I joined the faction, I was informed that we had an iron golem spawner, so I thought cool, this faction has resources, blah blah all that stuff. I had thought that we had gotten these spawners from vote tokens and such, but it appears that we did not get these spawners legitimately, and they were here before I joined the faction. One day, one of our newer members (Protector) is afking at the spawner, and then he lets us know that something happened to one of the iron golem spawners. Me, thinking that someone had actually broken our spawners, talked to CCShad, and Lego, and eventually got them to replace, what I thought was a legitimate spawner(that is the part when I placed the spawner btw). TL;DR I did not have any prior knowledge until now that the spawners were illegitimate I did not sell the iron that was made off the farm I placed the spawner because I thought I was replacing legitimate spawners, which was under the supervision of a mod and a architect.
Zedcall	Date sent: 2017/03/27 23:11:00 https://snag.gy/Zu5jo8.jpg That is my legitimate iron farm chip, which where you found the double chest of iron from. I have set aside the iron I have gotten from the spawner separately, and have informed CCShad where it is, so you can go look at those instead. * I also want to clarify, that when I say illegitimate, I am only saying so because Chip is referring to them as illegitimate.
Aouldrain	Date sent: 2017/03/27 23:19:57 Lol, anti-anti-architect argument shattered..
xXlego1master1Xx	Date sent: 2017/03/27 23:41:41 Clearing up some things- 1: Jtank316 found the spawners, messaged me and asked me to move them. I counted the ones he found, broke them, gave me the same amount with /i, and placed them where he asked me to. The spawners are not illegal because they were found, not given. I was not informed of them being changed to iron golem spawners. I was simply asked to move the spawners Jtank316 had found.
galbby5	Date sent: 2017/03/27 23:47:37 I like how you staff investigate me so thoroughly, then falsely accuse me of owning cheated in iron golem spawners, while I have provided evidence of at least 3 people who have ACTUALLY cheated and you're ignoring them. Bias much? You guys are letting the real cheaters get away easy while you guys concentrate on getting rid of the iron golem spawners that weren't even cheated in? Seriously? Chip, you're reasonable. You know that I didn't cheat them in. You know that Jtank didn't cheat them in. It was all built a damn long time ago. ffs, get the staff team to investigate the real cheaters, not innocent people like me or my faction.
Chip_Bruh	Date sent: 2017/03/28 00:00:31 You people seem to think that I'm going to punish you or that you're gonna get in trouble.. Etc. I would have punished you by now if I was. You're all telling me things that I already know, I purposely presented biased information as an example of what a real staff matter COULD be like. for the community to use this information as if it was correct and give me an example of how they would deal with the matter. Ultimately helping me guage who the next trial moderator should be. I know that the farm is fine, actually my only concern was that the chests are unlocked, so I removed them. Besides, its not like you can't just afk for a few hours again.
galbby5	Date sent: 2017/03/28 00:10:02 well if thats the case i would be mighty grateful if you could replace the iron golem spawners
Daprotector	Date sent: 2017/03/28 00:37:22 WAIT, SO WAS THIS JUST A TROLL??? Y Chip... Y ;-;
luigiofthebakery Moderator	Date sent: 2017/03/28 02:01:39 I would remove the spawners, destory the chests full of spawned iron and burn it. I would consult with other staff and then demote lego1master1 for making the spawners, since none of the other players could have as there is no such thing as an iron golem spawn egg so they couldn't have been obtained from vote tokens. Then I would remove the shop selling iron ingots for £2 a stack and give DaProtector a warning for selling illegitimate items and selling them at too low of a price.
Asriel🍆	Date sent: 2017/03/28 02:10:29 i think that is the best thing i've ever read ^^^^
loki570023	Date sent: 2017/03/28 02:48:10 If I were to deal with this matter, taking into consideration everything presented, first I would attempt to further my investigation into who did what, given that it was said that there was no proof the Iron was illegitimate. I would also investigate if possible the exact source of the spawners, as it could be that it was granted by a staff member for a vote token (which I believe is one of the things you cant get by a vote token) in which case Id talk to that staff. Or it could be that the spawners were moved. I would also question the fact that all the members were from redevo, and would then refer to luigi to determine whether or not a faction spawner was allowed. If not, which it isnt, I would remove the spawner then and there. I would also ask that the player who set it up disable the selling of the cheap iron. Since I had no concrete proof that it was illegit, I would not confiscate Iron from any players, however I would make it clear that it was deemed likely they had illegit items, and further incident would likely lead to punishment. Legomaster1 would get no punishment as he may have simply moved the spawner. I would remind him of the spawner related rules for architects to ensure it wouldnt happen by mistake, and then I would warn Zedcall and galbby, Zedcall for somehow placing a spawner ( i would enquire further into this by talking with zed) and galbby for allowing it to happen when he as the faction owner and someone who had used it, for allowing potentially illegal spawners. I would further warn all the involved players as it was VERY likely they had in fact taken illegal iron, though it could not be proved. I would ask them to present evidence disproving claims of illegal iron if they had it, to clear their name form any doubt. In regards to the iron shop, If the player didnt stop selling such cheap iron, I would disable it myself after about 24 hours if they failed to do so. I believe this covered everything. Lastly I would probs tell luigi or armz about the whole thing and what I did, so that if I screwed up somewhere along the way they could help out. I dont exactly know what the punishment would be if it turned out zed had cheated in some way to place a spawner in survival, so whatever that side investigation turned up, I would bring that to armz to ask what to do :P Like i said i think i covered everything. Thats what I would do. Subject to editing though, If i figure out a better method later :P
galbby5	Date sent: 2017/03/28 03:27:25 just to make sure loki, you do know that this isnt serious right?
loki570023	Date sent: 2017/03/28 05:07:51 Yes galbby I answered it as if it were a hypothetical, acting as if I only had the info chip had provided :P
Daprotector	Date sent: 2017/03/28 11:12:29 Since ​this is all hypothetical, may we have our spawners, chests, and the 426 iron that was in my shop?
Chip_Bruh	Date sent: 2017/03/28 12:19:36 How did you actually get the spawners to be iron golem? From what I remember, someone with /spawner irongolem illegally changed it for You, so me and armz changed them back to pig.
Matodir	Date sent: 2017/03/28 12:58:42 Sieg Heil! All bow down to our new dictator Adolf_Bruh.
Matodir	Date sent: 2017/03/28 13:00:07 Also luigi, grand idea my man, this is how we should go, instantly demote Architects that severely abuse.
galbby5	Date sent: 2017/03/28 13:47:52 chip I've explained before, we got those spawners in the time when we broke spawners, and for that admins gave us spawners. You gave me a spawner yourself once, when I broke a blaze spawner in the nether. You also changed it for us for free. That's how iron golem spawners were obtained
Chip_Bruh	Date sent: 2017/03/28 14:24:34 I certainly wouldn't have done it for free. Nevertheless, if you don't have /spawner irongolem, You can't have an iron golem spawner.
galbby5	Date sent: 2017/03/28 14:34:07 Okay, fair enough then, blame the admin who changed it for us
Jtank316	Date sent: 2017/03/28 15:30:22 Ok please do not demote Lego he was just doing a favor for me blame me i was the one who asked him i did not think it was rong since i was using it for building I am sorry i didn't think it was rong sience i had no actual gain except not having to waste hours mining iron when i build with it so much
xXlego1master1Xx	Date sent: 2017/03/28 21:10:23 I should not be demoted because staff fail to tell the Architects that you can't move a spawner someone found for them like most other staff do. Maybe make a /warp RankRules thing for this? I was not informed that moving a spawner someone found and asked you to move for them was illegal. I would like to point out that I am in no way responsible for the iron golem spawners, because I don't have the command to do so. And if I did, why would I? You people trust me and believe that I would not break the rules intentionally. P.S, staff get the spawners they use to replace an old one someone found the same way: /i or /give, breaking the found spawner, placing the amount someone found where they request, and delete the spawners from inventory.
LazarkGaming	Date sent: 2017/03/28 21:33:40 I've basically skipped all these comments. I would say an economy of sorts that was fixed by the server, and rules being added would help the situation a lot. Right now, the rules on donators in general are very grey. I personally, and my friend jamesbond_oo7 who are Architects, don't abuse our GMC. He's built some things that are fairly easy to get items, and whilst I disagree with this, it isn't spawning spawners for anyone else, or even himself. I am very strict about it, I don't even allow it to profit myself, I just use it to build and have fun. Also I've tried /spawner on all the mobs, so I don't know how those players got an iron golem spawner. I want to say more, but I think the bottom line is more clarity on rules. Because if chip says one thing, and tom says something similar, it already starts confusion.
21leke	Date sent: 2017/03/28 22:47:40 totally ignores topic CHIP whats the name of your texture pack?

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