does randito deserve admin?

Author	Message
alpacafarm	Date sent: 2018/06/06 03:47:56 comment ur opinion. he got 8 -1's, 8 +1's, and 2 abstains, yet still got admin. Shad said something along the lines on discord that since most of the -1s said that he was too strict, they didnt really matter because apparently his strictness has been "long corrected". However, does that make it fair that the staff completely invalidated the vote because of their opinion? Everyone has a different opinion, but instead the staff just shut them down completely. And for the strictness? not "long corrected". I was banned less than a month ago for evading mute while on the server completely alone. The ban was completely unjust and randito stood by the ban until loki had a talk with him and randito "realized" the ban was not right. Nah, he just had to agree with loki to make him happy. ass kisser xd My opinion- No.
alpacafarm	Date sent: 2018/06/06 03:49:02 Actually i banned about a month ago not less than a month
Presinus	Date sent: 2018/06/06 03:54:12 Alpaca, you read my mind and spoke my thoughts as if they were your own.
luigiofthebakery Moderator	Date sent: 2018/06/06 04:07:05 Staff cannot invalidate other's opinions because of what they think of them. If people change their views, they can always update their vote. It is not up to staff to do that for them. However, the results of the poll on Randal's admin app were not overly negative. As you outlined, he broke even. The tie would have been broken by some staff members who didn't comment on it.
pr1tce	Date sent: 2018/06/06 04:50:13 honestly staff shouldn't be able to vote on applications.... it should really be up to the players and the people who deny or accept the applications. the other staff members voting on it could cause an issue with someone being biased to +1 the person applying that is their friends. Like i am friends with one of the staff members, i apply, they could end up +1ing me because i am their friend. But if only the community decides, it could lead more to their actions being chosen over their friendships with other staff members.
luigiofthebakery Moderator	Date sent: 2018/06/06 05:23:45 Staff are players too and they have to work as a team with new staff members. Their vote is not worth more than any other player's vote. Anyone can be subject to bias, not just staff members.
alpacafarm	Date sent: 2018/06/06 05:29:54 Breaking even for +1's and -1's is not good at all. Majority of the votes should be +1 in my opinion
Pheonix2000ad	Date sent: 2018/06/06 08:12:46 its just insulting players tbh, players already quit the server because he got mod so I don't thing admin is gonna help players feel any importance to the server again
Shindori	Date sent: 2018/06/06 11:08:30 +1's and -1's are just a way to see how people think about certain matters, in this case Randal's promotion to admin. They do however not weigh as much in a final decision, they never have. I agree that it's a big fuck you to the playerbase though, but that's just how it is.
Randal	Date sent: 2018/06/06 14:53:37 It’s really great that all of ya care so much about me to take the time out of your day to think about me, make forum posts about me, comment on forum posts about me, keep tabs on how I’m doing as a staff member, and telling me what I can improve upon. It’s truly great. Big shoutout to alpacafarm for this since he seems to care the most out of anyone.
avanzero	Date sent: 2018/06/06 16:57:27 Yes, yes he does.
Ranthar	Date sent: 2018/06/06 17:09:16 "It’s really great that all of ya care so much about me to take the time out of your day to think about me, make forum posts about me, comment on forum posts about me, keep tabs on how I’m doing as a staff member, and telling me what I can improve upon. It’s truly great. Big shoutout to alpacafarm for this since he seems to care the most out of anyone." While it seems like alpaca has something against you personally, other people share his opinions to different degrees. You have to remember that most of the people here care about the server, not just about shitting on you. I think that your response to this could have been better. You could have perhaps assured them that you are going to continue trying to improve rather than just dismissing this as they all dislike you because they dislike you.
Shindori	Date sent: 2018/06/06 20:13:10 "rather than just dismissing this as they all dislike you because they dislike you." I don't dislike Randal as a person, he's a kind guy. I just question his staffing abilities. People often confuse this.
Ranthar	Date sent: 2018/06/06 20:16:47 yeah I meant to edit it into saying "as though" instead of just "as" but I don't have editing perms
CCShad Moderator	Date sent: 2018/06/06 21:26:43 Alpaca, you misunderstood what I was trying to say. It's not that the votes don't matter, we take them into account and if the suggestion is valid, like telling them they could be less strict on chat rules, then they can start working on it. Votes like "-1 because you banned me last year" are not very useful, as it's nothing we can improve on. Something you must understand is that admin applications are not required, Mods are chosen to be promoted based on performance, activity and maturity by the current admins and ranks above. but still, Admin applications are highly recommended to any aspiring staff members as they can show insight on your staffing, The great importance of admin apps is to show what the mod can improve on from the player's point of view before being promoted. So now that we all understand how admin apps work, let's analyze the reason behind some of Randito's negative votes and see how he can improve on them, or if he already has. -1 You banned a player for bypassing mute, even though they were the only one online when they bypassed mute. That is outright unethical. Often you dismiss it by saying "rules are rules," which shows you have no discretion at all. -Presinus" This incident happened about 1 month ago, Alpaca was banned for bypassing a mute while he was the only player online, Loki informed Randito that he was wrong and so he apologized to alpaca, it did hold him back from getting admin for a while, but obviously we weren't going to delay his promotion for months on end because of a simple mistake. I've seen people commonly say "oh he only said sorry to make Loki happy", I cannot see the reason for this assumption as there's no evidence towards it. Any way it happened would be interpreted that way by people who dislike Randito, but what really happend is he simply learned he was wrong from a more experienced staff member, and as he was wrong he apologized for his mistake. "-1 You're WAY too new of a mod to already be wanting Admin. Although you've become a better mod since you were first accepted, you're still way too inexperienced. Get at least six months in my opinion, and also try to be on PC more instead of minechat (sorry about your job if that interferes.) -Tye" It is more ideal to have a mod of at least 6 months to get admin, but Randito was already close enough with his 5 1/2, and the best candidate otherwise when you look at activity and maturity. "+1 Still have a little to learn but you do listen and are very dedicated in your mod duties, just cool it a little with shutting down conversations going on in chat so quick. I wish you luck. -Belg" This was a major problem when Randito had first became Mod, but after about 3 months as staff he got the hang of it. Luckily it's no longer a problem! "-1 I vote for any other mod. Overly sensitive, childish and biased -Pheo" These were things Randito had issues with when he first became Mod, as it's no longer displayed we can move on. "Back when you were an architect, if you had an opinion of a certain rule, your opinion about it would instantly change as soon as a staff member told you your opinion was incorrect. ckvoss was called a suck-up, though he always showed evidence of a contesting and unchanging opinion to other staff, while your opinion was whatever the highest staff's opinion was. I'm not one to call many people a suck-up, but you are a rare case. -Presinus again" It really depends on what you mean by opinion. If you mean an opinion on how to handle a situation obviously you'd WANT a higher staff member's opinion as they have more experience. As for things not involving staff matters, I haven't noticed him being a "suck-up". His opinion differs from mine and the other staff a lot, and leads to new ideas. The rest of his votes had similar votes agreeing with the ones I've already put here, so I won't cover them as they'd have the same answer. I think we all know what the most major complaint about Randito has been thus far, and it's that he was too strict with caps/spam/swearing (aka the chat rules). As he has not shown this issue for the past 2 months we have considered it solved for a while now, Some reasons why players may still be under the impression that he's still too strict could be that they haven't been online recently, or aren't very active, or they just saw other players comment about it and agreed with it to add more to their comment. Don't take this as me just assuming he's stopped, Me and Randito are in close timezones (he's only an hour behind me) and I have not witnessed him being too strict for the past 2 and a half months, I KNOW he's stopped. It would seem for the most part that Randito has overcome every one of his major issues he had as a mod, and as such he's ready for Admin! I say "major" things as you can't expect anybody to be perfect, people are bound to make mistakes here and there. But at the end of the day he's a great candidate.
Pheonix2000ad	Date sent: 2018/06/06 22:02:14 All you did in that paragraph was dismiss our opinions and tell us we are wrong. For such an awful lot of writing this came across very weak and unjustified. Bottom line is: if staff want Randal as admin he will get admin If players do not want Randal as admin they have the right to openly speak out about it. Much like how our votes don't mean shit to the outcome, you telling us we are wrong doesn't mean shit to our opinions.
CCShad Moderator	Date sent: 2018/06/06 23:50:57 Say what you will, it's the truth. We don't dismiss players as wrong, we take what suggestions they give us and improve on them until it's not an issue anymore. And I think it's already been said that the votes (+1, abstain, -1) are just a tl;dr of a player's opinion, going and tallying votes based on those numbers alone would be foolish because it wouldn't take bias and troll votes into account. What we really look at is the reasons for the player's vote. The reason for my example of debunking the negative parts of votes was to show that Randito is ready for admin, His former issues have been corrected to a point where he's ready to be promoted.
Presinus	Date sent: 2018/06/07 02:00:55 I mean my opinion can change if someone presents an arguement of which I can understand and relate to, while all it took for Ran was some admin to say "no I think Pres got this one right" and Ran would immediately change views with nothing more than a shallow opposition by a high rank. He'd speak so stong of his new opinion, then a head admin or up could say "no, all of you are wrong and it's really another way," and he'd change sides just like that. I do believe he changes, but I don't believe he learns.
galbby5	Date sent: 2018/06/07 03:52:08 Personally, I'm neutral on the argument on whether or not randal deserves mod, HOWEVER yes, I do think the REASONS for the votes should be taken into account, but I don't think that the tallied +1s and -1s should be completely ignored either. Bottom line is that the +1 and -1s reflect what the community thinks of the person in question, whether or not a reason is given. +1 means "i like this guy" and -1 means "this guys garbage".
Aouldrain	Date sent: 2018/06/07 23:22:28 "It’s really great that all of ya care so much about me to take the time out of your day to think about me, make forum posts about me, comment on forum posts about me, keep tabs on how I’m doing as a staff member, and telling me what I can improve upon. It’s truly great. Big shoutout to alpacafarm for this since he seems to care the most out of anyone." That cocky response tho, jesus fucking christ you're like sniff. Get better staff pickers.
Tye	Date sent: 2018/06/08 04:25:52 im still here lol jk
CaptainSpaceSheep	Date sent: 2018/06/08 23:01:46 I feel like it’s quite easy for other staff to say that Randito isn’t biased because it will never be against them. Randito has been biased towards me practically since he first saw me online
Tye	Date sent: 2018/06/09 02:56:07 It's about time I give my own opinion on this situation. As a quick statement, my answer is no. Like I said, he's been Mod for around 6ish months, which is a good time to to be promoted to Admin, maybe a bit early but he's still not fully developed to a level that is almost fully unbiased, actively involved personally with the player base, and he doesn't make the best decisions sometimes. I won't say he isn't mature, cause he's a whole lot more mature than me, but he is still in a "fetus" kind of stage for me as a staff member. Lots to learn and work on.
loki570023	Date sent: 2018/06/09 06:40:15 So do i, and so do the other staff. You guys seem to be under the impression that someone mst be entirely perfect to be staff. this is not the case. Even shad has made mistakes which hes had to learn from, and so have i, and james, and ellie, and everyone else, and we still are. Randal is by far and away the most dedicated active staff member we have that has also been mod long enough to get the position. Need I also remind you that Shad has been the only non-OP admin (erego the only one doing an admin only job) for quite some time now. Would you prefer I continue asking shad to handle ALL the regular admin work, dumping probably 3 times more shit on him than is necessary, while I try to force randal to be perfect which is impossible? Or would you prefer that I acknowledge him as someone who is doing his best and has worked on his errors to the best of his ability, and will continue doing so in the future, regardless of how many players say "he doesnt deserve it"? Perhaps it is time everyone gave him at least a little credit. Not only does he deserve it, hes more than earned it, and on top of that there are more factors at play here than "randal has been mod for a long time heres admin." quite a bit more.

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